Nothing More Important Than to Know Someone's Listening
An interview with Wilco guitarist Nels Cline ahead of their Chautauqua performance
The Chicago-based indie Americana rock band Wilco is returning to the Chautauqua Institution on June 14 for a special evening with a performance delving deep into their catalog. With 13 albums, several EPs, and four collaborative albums with Billy Bragg, the group will have a lot of material to choose from. Longtime Wilco guitarist Nels Cline has been with the band since 2004 and has contributed to every Wilco album since 2007's Sky Blue Sky. He is also known for his solo jazz-influenced albums, collaborating with artists like Banyan, Mike Watt, and Yoko Ono. Erie Reader contributing writer Larry Wheaton spoke with Cline over the phone to discuss his work with Wilco, some of his influences, and the inner work of songwriting.
Larry Wheaton (LW): This is the second time Wilco has played the Chautauqua Institution in just two years, the last time being July 5, 2024. Tell me what it is about the place that you enjoyed, being that it's a unique venue along with the grounds surrounding it.
Nels Cline (NC): It's really quite beautiful and I imagine that everything will be in full bloom, flowering for summer. I am also a New York state resident, so I like being in New York state when I am on tour because it's almost home. I live near Oneida actually.
LW: Can you tell me about the new expanded editions of 2011's The Whole Love and 2004's A Ghost Is Born, just recently released. Do those releases have any effect on what is put in the set list for this tour?
NC: Not that I am aware of, no. We certainly play a lot from A Ghost Is Born generally. I know that Jeff (Tweedy, lead vocals/guitar) slaves over a hot setlist every afternoon, and he definitely keeps in mind, repertoire wise, what records songs come from and with anniversary issues coming out – pretty soon the Sky Blue Sky anniversary is going to roll around. These songs get emphasized, you could say. It's part of the architecture of the setlist, but in general I think Jeff tries to have a little something from every record in the set.
LW: There are certain songs that fans expect – is there a conscious effort to mix it up each night of the tour?
NC: There are obviously certain songs that I could say are expected or beloved or ritualized at this point. Sometimes Jeff gets into a flow with the way they come together on each tour and that changes, but once he gets into that sort of flow for himself and the audience, the set lists don't vary quite as much as one might imagine. We are playing two sets because it's entitled "An Evening With Wilco," so lots of songs are getting played. There are some extended instrumental forays. Patrick (Sansone) and I are getting into some guitar mischief and that could be on one, two, or three songs per night and those change. You could say we are going to survey the Wilco groove, but certain things will be honored that are audience favorites. Jeff works really hard on this everyday.
LW: On the Hot Sun Cool Shroud EP I noticed there were some instrumentals that felt a little more experimental that the previous album Cousins. Were those tracks that were left over from those sessions?
NC: It's leftover stuff – the thing about almost every Wilco project, recording-wise, is that there is always extra stuff because Jeff always writes a lot of songs and we try to approach them in a coherent way and record them as much as our time and energy allow, so there is generally stuff left over. Even before I was in the band there was extra stuff left over from Yankee Hotel Foxtrot that was absolutely overwhelming because of so much experimentation on everything that's recorded. Even Cruel Country, if I tax my tiny brain – there was stuff left over from that record and that was 24 songs. Jeff is just very prolific and I have to say that we are pretty efficient when it comes to arranging and recording in the studio. We get a lot done, but not everything gets absolutely finished, so sometimes if there is something in analyzing the leftovers department, then maybe Jeff will go in and finish it for something like an EP or something extra.
LW: Jeff Tweedy writes most of the songs. What's the process from him presenting the song to the band to what the fans end up hearing on the record? Is there a form that you all fall into or does each some take shape in its own way?
NC: Each song takes shape in its own way. Quite often Jeff has this very specific angle on a song or what he is looking for and sometimes he just starts playing and singing and we learn the structure of the song and start adding. Then it's a matter of sub-tracking, because there is so much. But there is no actual method or repeated [methodology] that I could point to, except for the fact that Jeff's going to have more songs than we can actually get to. Jeff doesn't repeat himself with whatever approach he wants to take – whether it's stylistically, production-wise, or instrumentation-wise, so it's sort of a case-by-case basis. Sometimes for me it's very challenging to do something that sounds fresh and very succinct. Sometimes it's hard to find an avenue into a song that might have a very familiar structure, but Jeff is seeing a novel approach. That can take a minute, despite whatever musicianship skills I bring to the table.
LW: Wilco covered "U.S. Blues" by the Grateful Dead last time you were at the Chautauqua Institution and have played some shows alongside Bob Weir, with your collaboration on "St. Stephen" appearing on the Grateful Dead tribute album Day of The Dead. What influence, if any, does the Dead have on your playing or Wilco's live performance?
NC: It's very interesting to me that we are doing some of these songs and having these experiences – I mean I played with Phil Lesh and Friends a couple of times several years ago. I am the old man in the band, so my twin brother Alex and I used to listen to the Grateful Dead since their first record and then not religiously because I kind of went into a different musical direction in my life after 1972. However the longevity and influence of the Grateful Dead's music and general approach has made them more popular than ever, which is pretty trippy. I think the sort of folk blues aspect of the music is actually rigorous and the sort of ramshackle presentation and extended freedom that they brought to their performances has become ultimately more attractive to Wilco as we get older.
I think that a lot of the material is fascinating and the songs have some very unique twists and turns – the appeal of the band is not just, shall we say, youth-originated or ageless. When you imagine growing older and moving forward in a band that plays folk and blues, you have to listen to the Grateful Dead. There is an amazing amount of vision and longevity. It's inspiring even if you don't love everything about it – it's just so remarkable. I think that's something the whole band just started considering far more than the earlier iterations of the band.
LW: You play various styles of music, but are there different influences that you look to while performing with different artists? For instance, I could be wrong, but I hear touches of Neil Young and Richard Lloyd when I listen to you play with Wilco.
NC: I am a total mutt. I am diverse. My major thing is improvising – improvising can take many forms. My improvising you could call more of an exploration of sound; I don't always think in song forms but more in the jazz vocabulary. In some way I consider myself an American songbook jazz player, or an early fusion kind of guy. Miles Davis Bitches Brew and also acoustic bands like Oregon – that sort of material, that harmonic language. Then I like to rock out, and the guitar can do this, so I think I picked the right instrument to explore various modes of expression.
I think genre for me is not a consideration. I think people tack that on to anybody who moves around. It used to be considered quite suspect to play in a rock band, then play some hardcore free improvised music. That has changed thankfully and I am glad I lived long enough to see that suspicion disappear. To play in a band like Wilco and play diverse styles within a band like Wilco, and then play my own music and collaborate with improvisers from various styles is pretty much the ideal life for me. I feel very lucky that I am able to arrive at this place.
LW: I have a favorite guitar solo of yours – it's the one on "Impossible Germany." Can you tell me how you approached that one and maybe, if you remember, how many takes you did of it?
NC: That solo has become such a nightly ritual. I call it the blessing and curse of my life. It's a very long story to tell, but I will try and make it brief.
Jeff had made demos of that song prior to me joining the band and prior to Patrick joining – now we have been in the band for 22 years. I got an idea after we demoed just the song without the extended coda, to put an extended instrumental coda at the end. My idea was to have a completely worked-out guitar part in the manner of a song by Television called "The Dreams Dream," so I came up with some melodies on the guitar that I wanted to play with Jeff and showing him a couple of melodies and showing Patrick, he grabbed a guitar and started dissecting the melodies. So a couple of hours went by, they had in the arrangement (Cline then hummed the guitar lick that repeats in the song) all that stuff, and then he said: what do you think? I said "Sounds great" and Jeff said you should just solo, so the exact opposite of my idea.
So I played a solo and another demo with the instrumental coda added, which was feeling really good. Jeff really loved the solo on the demo so when we tracked the reel for "Sky Blue Sky" he asked, almost sheepishly, whether I would mind replaying the solo because he kind of fell in love with it while listening to it in his car.
The first time we played it in Spain when Sky Blue Sky was a very new record, it was really early in the setlist because it was just this new song off the new album and the audience went completely insane. We were all looking at each other and didn't know what was happening. You have to remember that we are in Spain and they love guitars, it became this universal guitar part and I can't honestly say it in a self congratulatory way, I can't think of another song in the current vernacular that has an extended guitar solo song that people actually listen to, that I know about. Even in metal where guitar solos are very important, those are extremely short. So this extended drifting solo with a visual dynamic that builds – I don't hear it out there, so there is something unique about it. It's really a trip, I have to say.
Wilco will return to the Chautauqua Institution on Sunday, June 14 with tickets ranging from $50 to $150. It is recommended to arrive early due to the distance of parking from the venue and to go through security before entering the grounds. Visit chq.org for tickets and info.
Larry Wheaton is an avid record collector and music connoisseur, with thousands of albums to choose from, he has found a home for Wilco albums in his collection since he discovered them in the late 90s. He also frequently plays their material on his WQLN radio program Sonic Sounds, for which he has been a co-host since its inception. He can be reached at wheaton1138@gmail.com
